Episode #436 – Success Looks Different in Every Season – Cherylanne is interviewed by Molly Asplin

Cherylanne Skolnicki:

I am Cherylanne Skolnicki, and this is Brilliant Balance, the show. For those of us who still dare to want it all, who have big dreams and bold ambitions, I think we deserve to have a big, full life and the freedom to enjoy it. So let’s design our next chapter together for brilliance, not burnout. Each week I’ll bring ideas, insight, and a fresh perspective to keep you growing into a life that feels as good as it looks brilliant. Balance your life your way. Now let’s get started. This is episode 436 of The Brilliant Balance Podcast. And today I am turning the tables with an episode called Success Looks Different in Every Season, in which I am interviewed by Molly Asplin. So I’m so glad that you decided to tune in today for this episode. I’m doing something I have not done before, which is airing an interview in full length where I am in the chair of the interviewee.

And I am in the capable hands for this episode of Molly Asplin. Molly runs a podcast of her own called The Modern High Performer, and I was so delighted to be interviewed by her a few weeks ago that I loved how the interview turned out so much that I asked her for her permission to air the episode on our show. And I’m gonna tell you why I think that Molly did a particularly good job of pulling questions out of me that I haven’t always been asked. And if I have been asked, I haven’t had the chance to share them with you as listeners of this show. So I think it serves as a really good foundational episode, lots of backstory and kind of how did we get here? How did Brilliant Balance come to be? And also, I think because it was recorded fairly recently, it’s one of the best sessions that I’ve done of late that really talk about the latest iteration of Brilliant Balance, some of the latest things that I’m thinking about, the latest positioning of our offers.

And I think that if you are trying to get your bearings on what exactly is Brilliant Balance and what are they up to and what is Cherylanne doing, I think this is a great place to tune in. Um, on top of that, I think Molly is just a really talented interviewer. We had a really genuine conversation. Um, and candidly, that’s not always true in podcasts. Like it’s kind of hard to find that vibe with someone who just really gets what you’re sharing. Um, I think Molly and I are kindreds. We really believe a lot of the same things and are serving a similar audience. So I would strongly encourage you to check out her show Again, it’s called The Modern High Performer. I’ll link to it in our show notes. I think there’s, she’s a couple hundred episodes in, so there’s a lot of really good content for you to peruse there as well. And I’m just grateful to her for this really good conversation and I hope that you’ll gain a lot of insight from it. So without further ado, here is my interview with Molly.

Molly Asplin:

Cherylanne, welcome to the podcast. We’re so happy to have you today.

CS:

Well, these are just the best, and doing it on a snow day is like a delight.

MA:

Yeah. Cherylanne’s based outta Cincinnati, and we were talking about the giant snowstorm that’s hitting them right before we pressed record. So 16 inches Yes. For all our Midwest listeners. Yes. <laugh>. Yes. Yeah. Um, Cherylanne, tell us a little bit about what, what you are doing for work and what got you into this work and why. I really wanna hear why, because as I read your bio, you have an amazing track record and I think the work that you’re doing now is really impactful and purposeful, and I’d love to hear what got you into this space.

CS:

Sure, sure. So the work I do today is as the founder and maybe Chief Creative behind Brilliant Balance, um, it’s an organization that I started in some way, shape, or form 15 years ago. It’s a little bit of a circuitous path to get there, but roughly 15 years ago, um, when I left my corporate career, I had spent the first 15 years of my career at Procter and Gamble dutifully climbing a corporate ladder very traditionally, started, um, right out of college in a sales role, got my MBA, moved into a marketing role, um, and just kind of followed a very predictable path inside of a really stellar organization. I love p and g to this day. I had a great career there, um, until it was time to leave. And so I made the decision to leave when I was, um, I didn’t know it yet, but I was expecting my third child.

And when I, you know, announced that I was gonna leave, and then I found out I was having my third child. And so that first year in entrepreneurship, I birthed a business and a baby, um, completed our family. That child is now about to be 16. And, um, a lot’s changed in those years. So, you know, I think my reason for wanting to start this kind of work was really to serve and support people who were living a lifestyle very similar to my own, and who maybe were facing some challenges that I had learned a thing or two about through practical experience. Yeah. I really loved mentorship and women’s network kind of activities inside of my corporate life that was really something that just lit me up intrinsically. And I knew it and I kept thinking like, what if I could do that? Like, is there a way to actually do that as the thing?

Um, my gifts lean toward communication. Like I always say I’m a words girl. So at some point in this journey, podcasting became a really natural extension of what I did. Um, I was doing a lot of writing for a while, still do some of that, but less than talking now. And, um, and then I added coaching and programming to kind of the buffet of things available to us. I have a pretty good sized podcast called Brilliant Balance that, um, I love, I’ve been doing it for seven and a half years now. Wow. And, um, and then I have two membership communities that are designed to support women at the intersection of work and life because I think it’s really hard and not an, we could just never have enough support there.

MA:

Yeah. That’s so good. And what’s interesting to me about your story is entrepreneurship started after motherhood. Yes. I always think this is inspiring because I know a lot of people in my world who are like, I would love to do something different, and like, they kind of know what the thing would be mm-hmm <affirmative>. But then it’s like, uh, I don’t know if this is the right time ’cause kids and work, and how would I actually create that? Was that scary? Yeah. What, yeah. Scary. Tell us about that pivot. Big pivot. Yeah.

CS:

It’s, so I think no one who knew me at the time would’ve predicted that I would do something that, you know, by most standards is risky, right? Like it’s, it sounds like a risky move, I think. And the way I did it was maybe a little less risky, which is I’m a planner from birth, you know, it’s just how I live. Um, very type A. And so I had really been very careful financially in the years leading up to that move. And I never skip over this in the story because I think it is part of what was the enabler is, um, I didn’t know that I was doing that so that I could start a company, but it would, that series of decisions got me to a place where I was in position to be able to do it. So, you know, my husband and I got married, we had been married I guess probably about 10 years at the time that I, um, left my corporate life.

And we had bought a house that we could do on one income. We had, you know, kind of built a lifestyle that allowed us to save a lot. And I realized that’s a privilege. Um, but it really, I had a very healthy income and I was the primary breadwinner and we were just sucking a lot of money away. And that got me to a place where I was able to have some runway to get an entrepreneurial venture standing up. I didn’t have to replace my income immediately. Um, and that mattered, right? I think there are some women today who are just not in that position. They need every penny that they’re making. And I think it’s a tough cutover to go from Yeah. A lucrative corporate job to a lucrative entrepreneurial venture without some kind of turbulence in the middle.

MA:

Yeah. It’s gonna take a little bit of time to ramp it up. Right. I think no matter how qualified or how much experience you have, it’s a big pivot and it is a risk. Yeah. I’m, I’m hearing what you did is living below your means. Yes. And created a solid financial runway that felt good for you.

CS:

A hundred percent. So boring. Right? It’s so boring. And

MA:

I love, it’s a path

CS:

To freedom. I mean, I think that we just have to be really honest that like those boring decisions, um, ultimately do create freedom. So like, what are you working towards? Sometimes it’s not immediate, but you really wanna have decisions that keep your options open, I think. And, um, and there are lots of ways. I mean, I just quit wholesale. I left without a package. I made the decision on my own timing and took my income to zero at day one. Right. And had to rebuild it from that. I don’t advise that for most people. I think there’s too many ways to prove your idea in advance, um, while you’re still working as kind of, you know, the classic side hustle idea so that you have something you’re stepping into that’s a little less unknown. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, it’s usually where I’m advising women today.

MA:

Yeah. I think that’s good advice. And I also think some of us just need the push <laugh>. Yes. But my husband and I went through big career transitions this year, and my income actually went to zero. And I have, you know, I’m in the process of rebuilding. Yes. And I don’t think I would’ve ever left my past experience had I not been, I’ll say, pushed out. Right? Yes. Or forced to pivot. And so, I don’t know, I’m, I’m a kind of a comfortable kind of girl mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so unless something gets me to move. So I,

CS:

It’s fair. I think I held on for a while to the idea like, if this doesn’t work out, I’ll get a job. Like, I’ll just get another job. I’m marketable. I have a great education

MA:

Being within your head. Yeah. Good

CS:

Experience. And my, uh, my godfather said to me, he’s like, do you know the phrase burn the ships? And at the time, I probably didn’t burn

MA:

The boats. Yeah.

CS:

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. And I thought, well, that’s it. Like it’s, you better really cut ties and decide you’re gonna make this work. ’cause it, to your point, that does sort of light a fire under you that I’m gonna figure this out.

MA:

I’m gonna figure this out. Yeah. So let’s get into this. I love this. You, you say, high performers don’t need better hacks or systems. And before we press record, I said, I don’t wanna talk about time management <laugh>. Like, I just kind of feel like it’s white noise. Sure. Maybe to a certain degree. But you say they need clarity about the season of life that we’re actually in mm-hmm <affirmative>. What do most women misunderstand about that?

CS:

So you serve a very high achieving base of women, right? As I do I think that this generation of women who were raised in the, we can do it all era mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, I kind of have a belief that life should constantly move up and to the right. Yeah. In all vectors. Like, we like those charts in meetings, you know, you always wanna have the chart going up into the right. And we want our life, I think, to look like that. And I, for a long time believed that my life should be moving up and to the right in all vectors all the time. Um, I had a pretty idyllic childhood, not a lot of bad things happening to me. Right. Like, so I drank like the Kool-Aid on that, that’s what life was gonna look like. Um, and that is not what life looks like.

Right. Life really does come in seasons of all kinds. And I think that fulfillment is about matching the pace of your life and the things that you’re including in your life to the season that you’re in. And I’m not talking specifically about like, oh, I’m in a season of being young and single and now I’m in a season of having babies. Like, that’s not what I mean. I mean like, are you in crisis and survival because something is happening in your work or home life that is requiring almost a hundred percent of your attention at like a laser-like level where everything else fades to black because that is the one thing that you can do. Right? Um, I’ve been through a couple of those seasons, they suck, but they’re clarifying, really clarifying, right. Are you in a season of stewardship and optimization where things are kind of stable and you can tidy up some systems in the way things run to find efficiencies and make everything sort of, um, be more smooth. Right. Again, whether we’re talking about your work environment or your home environment, there’s like seven that I work with in our community and I think it matters that they’re not all growth and expansion. Yeah. Right. We wanna be in growth all the time and therefore we keep trying to align our expectations with that. And I think it’s really the source of a lot of our dissatisfaction.

MA:

Yeah. And when I hear that, I hear the source of dissatisfaction and I will create a lot of unnecessary pressure on myself. Yes. That’s just very self-inflicted. Yes. And a lot of times in my head. But then, you know, your thoughts become your actions. That’s right. How do you think outdated standards of success keep us stuck? Because maybe that’s what’s happening to me is I’m, I have some standard of up and into the right. Like, how is that happening and why <laugh>?

CS:

I know it’s like if we’re not growing, we’re failing. Right? Yeah. There’s no middle ground.

MA:

I mean, there’s that quote, right? If you’re not growing or dying, it’s like, huh. Maybe not. Yeah.

CS:

Maybe not. Because I, again, I think the older I get, the more clear it is to me that these chapters or seasons of life unfold with great purpose. And there’s different lessons in each of them. And if we’re fighting though, if we’re fighting to live as though we are in growth and expansion, no matter what, we’re missing the lessons in those seasons, period. Right. We’re also missing the work that we’re actually supposed to be doing in those seasons that just go back to stewardship and optimization. That is different work. Right. When I think about your business, when you’re in a season of growth in your business, you’re like, you know, move fast and break things. Right. The classic Zuckerberg quote mm-hmm <affirmative>. Just, it doesn’t matter because you’re like, it’s all about growth. Get the growth. I’ll figure that out later. It’s like the classic line following one of those seasons coming in behind that with stewardship and optimization to say, I am now going to put systems in place to standardize the way we do this. Now we know what works best. And you skip that and stay in that growth kind of mindset all the time. You’ll have a mess of a business, it’ll be a mess. Right.

MA:

Sounds like anxiety. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

CS:

Yeah. And the same thing at home. I think we get into, like, I’ll get to it later. Right. We never wanna slow down long enough to just pause and go, is this working? I was <laugh>, this is gonna sound like a hack, so don’t cut it outta the episode. It’s important. Then, I was talking to a client recently in a 1 0 1, she has a young toddler and she said, you taught me years ago about the shoe basket and I get it now. And I was, so I’ll explain what this is, the chaos of a household full of young children, right. There are shoes everywhere. They just do that. They drop them wherever they think they should. And I, for a while, was trying to get everybody to put their shoes back where they belong. And I finally was like, this is dumb. The system that works for this season is baskets near the places that they’re likely to drop these shoes. Right? <laugh>. So by the doors of the house, by the bottom of the stairs, just get ’em in a basket. And then if somebody’s looking for shoes, they’re in one of those baskets, you know, go to the basket and find the shoes. So I think it’s just a metaphor for how many places in life, maybe we need a system that works for that season. It might not be your dream, but it allows you to like to stay in alignment with what’s realistic in the season that you’re in.

MA:

Yeah. I think that’s so good. I’m gonna insert a personal story that I think will resonate with the audience and give you some context too. I remember when Steve, my husband and I, we just had our two girls at the time. Now we have a son as well. But we kept using this phrase of like, oh my gosh, we’ve gotten to a point where like, these kids are just existing around us. And we were, it was a mess always. Like there was never a plan, you know, like our careers were up, up, up, up, up. But like our home life was, I’ll just say in shambles, like physically it was just a mess. And we’re like, what, what are we doing here? And what I’m hearing is that there would’ve been a season where instead of going up right in this area of career, we could have said, Hey, well eventually we did. We kind of reached a breaking point of let’s steward and optimize the home right now because there’s an issue here. <laugh>.

CS:

Well, so there’s two things I think are really important about this. One is you can be in a different season in two areas of your life. So you can be in growth and expansion at work like you’re describing. Yeah. And feel like, okay, what we need at home is stewardship and optimization. I’ll say this, you typically fall to the level of the lower energy season. Oh. So what was probably happening in that for you is that you were not growing and expanding in the way you really wanted to be because there was this sense of like, oh, this stuff needs attention at home.

MA:

Yeah. It was kinda like pulling us down.

CS:

Right. That’s how it functions. So the ability to pause for a hot second and go, we gotta sort of double click on this home environment and figure out, do we need some help in here? Do we need to change our standard? How are we gonna come to terms with this so that we can give more energy and time back to these growth opportunities? Because they’re, look, when they’re coming, you don’t wanna miss them. Right. You don’t wanna say like, well, I’m gonna this one out because,

MA:

Because my home’s a mess. Right. Right, right. Okay.

CS:

’cause there’s other ways to get that handled

MA:

That’s really helpful. And I love that you sort of identify, you sort of fall to the lowest energy, lowest common denominator. Yeah. Yes.

CS:

You do mm-hmm <affirmative>. And you, we don’t want that to be true. No. Especially in a crisis, but, but we do.

MA:

Yeah. Um, when someone or what tells you someone is living from an old definition of who they should be or how life used to be?

CS:

Um, that’s a great question. I don’t think it’s like something we wear externally. Right? So I wouldn’t like to meet you on the street and say, oh, I, I can tell I do pretty intimate work with my clients. I mean, when we’re, we know them pretty well, particularly in like Bold, which is our premier coaching circle. Like those, there’s, it’s a small enough group that I know them really well in a season like that, I would say there’s, um, a level of self criticism that is often because we’re trying to match a standard that does not match the season. So like, take classic women as they’re aging and they’re like, Ugh, my skin doesn’t look dead when I was 30 or my hair. Okay. That’s a, that’s a good metaphor again for like what I’m talking about. What that does is they don’t acknowledge like, well this is really normal, you know, this is what skin looks like at 50. They go, they’re lamenting, why can’t I get it to match what it did 20 years ago? And I think that’s true in a lot of areas of our life Yeah. That we’re measuring ourselves by a standard that was realistic or appropriate from a previous version of ourselves. And it is not appropriate for this one. Um, and it causes a lot of self-criticism and that’s usually the biggest flag.

MA:

Yeah. It’s what I’m hearing too is this notion of, I just need to get back to Oh yeah. Like, to me those are sort of triggering words like, well, do you, or are you a new person now and in a different season with another kid? Who are you

CS:

Becoming? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

MA:

Yeah. Who are you becoming? Right. When people

CS:

Say they need to get back to me. My question is, who are you becoming?

MA:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s good. Forward motion versus the past. Yes. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. How do you help women name this season of life that they’re in? I’ve heard you say naming your season unlocks sustainable performance. Yes. And I love that. And you gave some examples about the crisis of stewardship and operation, but especially when it’s not in a season that they wish they were in. I think this can be hard. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I don’t know if this acceptance, tell us more.

CS:

Oh, I know. So okay. Your first question was how do we help them name it? Yeah. So I have a core process called Your Week Your Way that’s really about, you know, I think a lot of us would say like, my week doesn’t work for me. Like, my time, my calendar doesn’t work for me, my life isn’t working for me. And I am always saying that’s because it’s working for everyone else. Right. You’ve, you’ve designed a life that works for everybody but you. And so that’s why this program is called Your Week Your Way, but inside of Your Week, your Way, um, I have a core tool that helps you identify that season. Um, it’s a little bit of an excavation process, like really asking good questions of yourself to uncover what it is, and then making the choices that are in alignment with that season. So it’s all done inside of a framework called your Week Your Way for us.

MA:

Awesome. Okay. So what happens when maybe we resist <laugh>, we resist that, right?

CS:

I mean, it’s okay, right? Like Yeah. If somebody, if I’m working with somebody and I am clear that they have sort of, they’re in resistance, it’s, it’s actually more rare than you think. Okay. I think there’s a lot of relief, maybe that comes from seeing the options and saying that it just feels exactly right. Hmm. And sometimes we fight more to align our behaviors or our priorities with that season, but I actually have not had that much trouble getting people to acknowledge with honesty the season that they’re in. No. So aligning your behavior is a whole different story. Right. And maybe that’s what you’re really asking is like

MA:

<laugh> Yeah. Let’s move to aligning your behavior. Because you know, if I’m in a season where it’s like, yeah, there is a lot going on around me, and yet I want to strive in my career, I wanna build a business, then, then I feel like conflicting priorities at all points of the day.

CS:

You’re asking a great pathway of questions, Molly, because I think that what happens is we will lie to ourselves about what’s possible Yes. Until we break, basically. Right. Like until we break. So you’re either making those decisions by design or by default. Hmm. If you’re pretending that you have 16 hours a day available to work full tilt, and that’s not actually true based on the season that you’re in, then what will happen is the work will not get done. Right. It’ll fall off and you’ll be behind and deadlines will get missed and you’ll try to stay up till three in the morning and the whole loop. And that is, there’s my entry point to be able to come in and get you to re acknowledge the reality of the season. It’s like, that suffering actually opens the door to say, hold on, you see this? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. This is, this is the result of this you’re fighting with this season. Yeah. If we drop in to honor it mm-hmm <affirmative>. And we reset the rhythm of what you’re doing and not doing and what you’re saying yes to and what you’re saying no to, like, if we’re just reality checking that it’s like it drops into alignment and now there’s enough of me to go around.

Okay. Yeah. That’s not, without having to grapple with a whole lot of feelings that can come up about it, that is a very important part of this work. But, but bumping up against the edges of capacity, I think is an early, an early kind of piece of the puzzle.

MA:

Yeah. What do you typically notice about when someone is in that situation? I, I have to think there’s a lot of boundaries and Yeah. What are you, are you saying yes to? What are you saying no to? What do they usually need to stop doing? I dunno if there’s a common theme or pattern that you see

CS:

Yeah. There, um, if I tried to raise it to the level of theme, I would say they need to stop doing what everyone else expects of them. Okay. And start doing what they expect of themselves. Like if I tried to get to a common theme, sure. The details of that are unique to the individual. Okay. Right. But we’re carrying a lot, our calendars are a reflection of almost a bidding war. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It’s what everyone else wants us to do. They’re putting meetings on our calendar and carpools and soccer schedules and all the things. It’s like, yeah, here’s all the things that are expected of you based on what you’ve signed up for in life. And there’s no reality check of whether that actually fits. And so if our paradigm is like that, my job is to keep up with my calendar. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. We’ll drown. Right. And if our reality check is like, no, the calendar is mine to curate, what am I going to say yes to and what will I say no to? And if I say no, is someone else doing it? Is it getting automated? Is it just getting a limit? Like, how am I gonna say no? I think there’s a lot of nuanced training there. That’s a big part of the work I do with women.

MA:

Yeah. That’s really helpful. Well, how do you define success in a week that’s aligned versus just productive? I think this is a good piggyback question to what you’re explaining.

CS:

Yeah. So productivity to me is different from being busy or getting a lot done. Yeah. Okay. I think that, and so there might be a nuance in how we define productivity. A lot of women get to the end of the week and they’re like, I did a lot and I do not feel like it counts. Right. Like, I do not feel like I was productive. Yeah. Because productivity has to have a match between what I’ve always called intention and integrity. You know, what did you mean to do? And then did you do those things? Hmm. Because if you did a lot, but it didn’t have intentionality, you were just reacting to whatever was coming at you. It’s hard to feel productive. You feel like you were really busy, you can be exhausted by the end of the week. Right.

MA:

A lot of things are off. Yeah. That’s

CS:

Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so alignment is just sort of like the next turn of the dial on that. Yeah. That the tension is so clear that you were absolutely sure that these were the things that warranted your time and your energy and your attention. And then the things that did not make the cut you’re at peace with because they weren’t the thing that you chose to be in alignment. Right. Yeah. Now, Molly, all of us have to kind of get our eyes and stomach aligned. Like most of us are like, I can do all the things. Yeah. And then you get to the end of the week and you’re like, mm. Everything took longer than I thought. Right. It was, it

MA:

Does. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But

CS:

Still, if we’re able to have intentionality about what we wanna do and some level of prioritization to that, and we get to the end of the week and we’re like, I did the most important, I did most of the most important things, we’re gonna feel pretty good.

MA:

Yeah. You’re gonna feel, I feel the word fulfilled when you say that. Yeah. Like, yeah. Productive, but also fulfilled ’cause it was what I wanted to do. That’s right. Not just what got popped on a calendar or something.

CS:

And aligned and at peace and a sense of calm. Like, you can kind of be done and say like, yeah, I can put my head on the pillow like, I did enough. And enough is a really hard word for women who are wired like you and I are. It’s hard work.

MA:

It’s, it is.

CS:

Did you know that beyond hosting this podcast, I also directly support women leaders at the intersection of work and life as a member of Bold. You get direct access to me, the women on my team, and a peer group of exceptional women who are rewriting the rules and redefining what it means to have it all together. Go to Brilliant Balance.com/bold to learn more and apply for your spot today.

MA:

How does energy management play into this?

CS:

It’s the underpinnings of a lot of it. So, um, I foundationally think that our ability to manage our energy, which includes our physical health and wellbeing, as well as emotional resilience, like the combination of those things, it’s so fundamental to being able to bear a big life. Right? Like, if we wanna be able to carry a big, full life Yeah. We have to have a lot of energy. And so you can have a collection of practices that support that and we can all fall into a collection of practices that deplete that. Right. So they’re very aligned, I think. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Energy is foundational to the big full lives to growth and expansion chapters period. And so it’s something I think we have to be mindful of all the time.

MA:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And do you think that helps with, you know, I’ve heard of like energy audits and going through your, you know, all your items and like looking at what actually brings you energy versus what doesn’t, what are your thoughts on that?

CS:

I think it matters. I think we have to be careful as a collective of overachievers that we don’t like, measure ourselves to death. You know? Like, I think you have a good gut for this stuff and Right. Like, just checking in and saying like, every time I look at that thing, I don’t wanna do it <laugh>, I just don’t wanna do it. That’s a good sign. Right. It probably doesn’t matter how good you, it’s, it’s probably not yours. And then there’s other things that we just are like little magnets, we’re just totally drawn to them and they fill us up and we know, we know. Um, and so I think paying attention to that, just trusting the intuition versus kind of like overly measuring and checklisting and auditing things is probably, yeah. Probably a little more ease there.

MA:

Yeah. Just like a good, a good intuition check is good. Yes.

CS:

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And look, there’s some that are broadly true, like sleep is non-negotiable. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Show me the woman who says, I just need like four hours of sleep. And I’m like, show me your life at seven or eight and let’s see what you can do. Yeah, totally. It really is. So just the human organism needs sleep to flourish. Right? I mean, we all need good quality food and enough of it, and most of us either don’t get enough or we don’t get good quality. Right. Totally. And we need to be hydrated and we need to move. And like, there’s some real basic things that I think Yeah. We know we need it. Um, the trick is in how you orchestrate your life so that you get them consistently Yeah. And don’t apologize for them. And you know, like I think that’s the devil’s in the details on a lot of this stuff.

MA:

Yeah. It really is. And then making sure your calendar is set up so that you can make those things happen each day. Because I just think there’s this upside of energy that a high achiever can miss. ’cause they’re, you know, literally trying to keep all the balls in the air and it’s like, but it will actually be easier if you carve out some time for you to sleep or Yeah. Move your body or whatever it might be. Yeah.

CS:

A hundred percent.

MA:

I wanna move into perfectionism here to finish up, because I have personally struggled a lot with this and I’m going to assume that a lot of our listeners have too. Okay. So this is for women who really wanna do things well, they don’t wanna miss a beat. Um, but they might use perfectionism as a way to protect themselves from doing something imperfectly. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so let me give you this, let me paint this picture of all last year as I was kind of reinventing my career and getting my feet within me, I kept telling myself these narratives of, there’s too much going on at home. Like, my kids are young, they need a lot from me. My husband has a demanding job, but all the while I was not fulfilled mm-hmm <affirmative>. By doing, I’ll say that stuff, right. Like the home and family. Yes, I wanna be present, but I almost felt like I was too present and that Molly was sort of dying inside, just being really honest here. Yeah. And I just kept playing this game with myself for like six months where I was like, well, see, I, I can’t build that because I need to be over here. And I, I think it really, I’ll say, kept me small or kept me stuck.

CS:

It’s like a hiding place.

MA:

Yeah. Yeah. It was a hiding place. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I would love your thoughts on this.

CS:

So I think there’s two things that I hear. Like if I were coaching with you and you came with that story, right? There’s like two sorts of directions I would take. One is less about perfectionism and the other one is squarely about perfectionism. So the less about perfectionism angle is we have a lot of narratives about what we should like and should wanna do and should be able to do, right? So if we’re like, well, my husband is a big job and I don’t necessarily need to have this and I should wanna be with my kid, you can get into a narrative around like, what is expected of me that if you’re not drawn to it, you get that dissonance that you’re describing, right? Yeah. Like the difference between expectations or should and want or desire or calling. Yeah. Okay. So I hear that pattern in the story, the perfectionism piece of it when it can become a hiding place is, um, what if I’m not good at this entrepreneur gig? Oh, mm-hmm <affirmative>. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Like, what if, what about, how could I protect myself from never having to actually know, well, I could stay here and spend a lot of time at home and say that it’s really busy. Right? So yeah. Um, Catherine Morgan Scheffler is somebody whose work I love and I’ve cited it a number of times in podcasts because I, I just always wanna give credit to these ideas where the origin is Sure.

MA:

She

CS:

Breaks perfectionism into five subtypes and one of them is called procrastination perfectionism. Yeah. Which is that these people love the perfection of an idea. Right? So you’re building a big beautiful business in your mind and you’re like, this is what it could look like and it might look like, and if all my dreams came true be so amazing, but those types of people will stall when it’s time to move into execution because then they have to confront the reality of an imperfect execution. Yeah. Right? So procrastination perfectionists have a lot of ideas that aren’t executed. They’re always gonna write a book. Hmm. What if I started a business? What if I built the dream house? What if I, and they’re like big dreams that are gorgeous, but they stall out at the, at the moment of like, this is the moment of truth. Did I do it? Or Right. And I hear a little bit of that as like, that’s where we retreat to safer territory because we don’t have to confront, everything will be imperfect in execution.

MA:

Yeah. That’s really, that’s really good. I think I probably had a mix of both. Yes. And I, it’s funny, I think they should, and I’d love your take on this too, like, I should like this, I should be good at this. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, this should be like the motherhood stuff that comes up a lot for me. This should be easier for me. I should enjoy <laugh>, I should enjoy this more.

CS:

Right. Barbies on the floor, why not? Right? Yeah. Yeah. That,

MA:

It’s been a challenge for me. And even for me saying out loud, I feel a little bit guilty saying it, like,

CS:

I’m so proud of you. It’s really brave to say that. I’ve had many, many women, uh, I have said like, God, like I just could not play Barbies on the floor. And they just feel so seen. Like Yeah, that’s

MA:

A great expression. Right?

CS:

<laugh>. So, and I think, look, we have just sort of swallowed a social narrative of conditioning for decades that tells us we’re supposed to love that. And it’s the dream, if you can afford to do that full time, what a dream. And I think there’s a lot of women who just, that’s not the dream. Yeah. And it’s not that we don’t love being mothers. I love being a mother, um mm-hmm <affirmative>. I genuinely do. I would’ve been an absolutely terrible full-time

MA:

Primary parent. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm

CS:

<affirmative>. So I think that that, you know, and, and that’s coming from somebody whose mom spent seven years at home with me when I was a child and benefited from that forever. Like, uh, my mom nannied for our kids and was phenomenal at it. It’s her calling. Right. So, I think we do, but that social narrative is really hard to get away from what we are expected to want, and it doesn’t just rest within motherhood. It’s certainly a dominant place, but like, even if you wanna put a home cooked meal on the table, the number of people I have talked to over the years who have shame about it, I don’t wanna do it. I don’t have any desire to do it. I’m not good at it. I don’t like to do it. Um, or exercise today is a huge Right. The social narrative is that we are supposed to wanna exercise. Yeah. Not everybody does.

MA:

Yeah. It’s funny as you’re saying all these things, like all of these are social narratives that have been put out there and you kind of feel like you should be forced to believe them and live them. Yes. It’s a good question.

CS:

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It’s good to know who you’re, and I think what we aren’t given the skills for is who I am, what do I actually like, what lights me up? What makes me the most myself? And so I would say to everyone listening, like, if, if that resonates with you, if you’re like, I’m not sure I know the answers to that. I only know what I’m supposed to want. Like, that’s really good work to do. Yeah. Um, to figure out who can you be shouldered up with to really get underneath like, what do I actually want?

MA:

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

CS:

Right. It’s a big question.

MA:

It’s, and it’s that values based thinking and you know, that gets thrown around all the time, but it’s like, Hmm. But do you really know your values? Right. Right. Or like, have you, you know, double clicked on or were

CS:

They handed it to you? Yes.

MA:

Or were they handed to you? I’m like, you should love spending time with your <laugh> course. I love spending time with my children, but no, I don’t like playing Barbies on the floor. Um,

CS:

I told my 21-year-old this weekend, this is just really honest. I said, I dunno , I was a great mother of like toddlers. We had toddlers visiting recently and then we were playing on the floor with them. I’m like, I love to do that for like an hour. Sure. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But I’m a great mom of older kids. Yeah. I feel so proud of the parenting that I am doing of older children and I am fully invested in their lives. And of course we can have conversations and you know, I think that we just have to know ourselves to know where we’re really gr. My husband was a great parent of very young children. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Teaching kids to ride bikes and playing games in the yard. He was great at it. Right. Yeah. So we just have our, we have our things that we’re great at. We

MA:

Have our seasons. Yeah. We have our seasons. Yeah. Um, well this is a personal question about your story as you were building your, your business since it was your own business, because I do think there’s a difference here. And we have business owners who listen and we have corporate leaders mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, but when you are build as you were building your business, did you feel like it was easier to I’ll say, push it off or, you know, to let other things come on the schedule because you’re like, well, I’ll just do that tonight, or I can do that whenever ’cause it’s mine.

CS:

The flexibility because of the flexibility.

MA:

Flexibility. Like, does flexibility become a pain point at all?

CS:

That’s a great question. Um, I think that in the very early days when I really didn’t have a full team assembled, that I think was absolutely true. Right? It was, it was almost too easy to say, well this could wait. You know? Um, once I had a team assembled, that changed because there was this mutual accountability of, um, a little bit more structure and a little bit more of a schedule. So I think like the solopreneur plus chapter Yeah. It was a little too easy to let myself off the hook. And I think for me, having a team created that accountability, um, like reverse accountability, right? Like I feel very accountable to my team. Does that, is that get where you’re going. Yeah.

MA:

Yeah. Yeah. It does. And whereas

CS:

Like in my Proctor and Gamble life, I mean, there are notorious stories like famous to the family of, of really dumb decisions that I made to prioritize work over things in my personal life mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, that I’m not proud of. Right. But I really felt like I had no choice in that era. Fair. Remember I was working there from 20 to 35, like that era of my life. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think there’s a lot going on in that era where you really are trying to prove yourself and kind of earn a reputation. Um, but I, there are decisions there. I’m just not proud of, like, I was way, way over to one side of committed mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so I think I have a natural sense of being very committed to whatever I’m working on. But I will say in the earliest years it was, it was a little too easy to let myself off the hook.

MA:

Yeah.

CS:

My family might disagree with that. They might be like, you never let yourself off the hook one time. <laugh>. Yeah.

MA:

Yeah. I think I, what I’m noticing as a theme with a lot of the women I work with is there’s almost this pendulum where they have climbed so hard for so long and, you know, they have the resume and the title and everything and they’re like, they’re kind of like, f this, like this, is it tired f this, like mm-hmm. It’s fair. And they wanna, sometimes they wanna swing it, you know, fully the other way. And I’m, you know, kind of <crosstalk>.

CS:

Well that’s, I think that’s a good point though. Again, back to season, I’ll sound like a broken record here, but when I did, I didn’t say this earlier. When I first was leaving p and GI wasn’t sure exactly what I was gonna do mm-hmm <affirmative>. And the first dream was to open a bakery in my hometown, like a little artisan bakery with, you know. Yeah. That,

MA:

So that swinging the pendulum Right. That

CS:

Was swinging the pendulum. And I think that’s a sign, right. That what I needed was recovery and I was ignoring it. Yeah. So I had been in overdrive, right. Two young kids. I’m doing this giant job. I was running a billion dollar business and like, no exaggeration, like a billion with a B dollar business. Right. And I needed, I needed, I needed my world to get very small and nothing felt smaller than handing people a warm muffin in a, you know, beautifully lit space in my little town. That’s not where I would’ve stayed. Right. Okay. But there’s a pendulum moment of like, I need some recovery. And so actually when I reflect on your question, maybe some of that early chapter of like, quote, letting myself off the hook or being too flexible really was my me craving recovery and not knowing how to give it to myself.

MA:

Yeah. It was sort of the end of your Yeah. Proper career where you’re like, oh, something needs to shift.

CS:

Yes. And so then, then it’s like, oh, as I came out of that, everything, I started hiring a team and everything kind of came back to like, what feels like a good pace Yeah.

MA:

For that season. Yep.

CS:

Yeah. That’s great, that was a good insight you pulled out.

MA:

Good. I’m glad. <laugh>, if, if a woman listening right now feels ambitious and tired, what’s the first permission you’d want her to give herself this week? Uh,

CS:

Sleep. Go to sleep. Okay.

MA:

Sleep. Take

CS:

Yourself to bed.

MA:

Yeah. I mean, anything else, maybe it is around that recovery season. No,

CS:

I’m, I am 100% serious. Every single thing will seem clearer. Yes. After some solid sleep. Yeah. So if somebody is sitting listening today and she is like, I’m such, I am a boss. Right. I’m so ambitious. I’ve got big dreams and I am exhausted. Literally take yourself to bed early, do a full wind down ritual, get under the covers, maybe get a heating pad in there, cup of tea. Like get some serious sleep and let things go for a hot second. Maybe several weeks of just full nights of sleep. Because what will come on the other side of that is clarity about what you actually want. Yeah. And we can’t get that clarity when we are exhausted. We’re just so tired that we’re like, this is not working. And we’ll just loop on describing the problem instead of actually moving into solutions. Okay. So I was being very literal about the reco, which is get some sleep and then get somebody to talk to. Yeah. Talk it through. Um, because you wanna move from lamenting the situation to I’m gonna solve this to, I’m just gonna talk about how much it sucks. I’m gonna actually decide what I’m gonna do next.

MA:

Yeah. That’s healthy. And I like the, I like the recommendation on sleep because I think there is a lot out there on, you know, you need to get really quiet and you need to step back from everything you’re doing. And sometimes that’s not realistic. Yeah. I mean, do you have any other strategies like life keeps moving kids work, but if, you know, that’s not the life you wanna be in anymore. I do

CS:

Think, I think you need to press pause. Like, it’s really hard to change the direction of a train moving at full speed. Right. You have to know how to slow it down and get some support in not just journaling through, like, it’s really hard to do this work alone, but I think having someone to talk to Yeah. That you can unpack, this is what is not working. I need to put language around it. This is where I am stuck. And then who can really help you start to ideate, like what would have to be true to get a better outcome? Where are you acting like you’re stuck, that actually you have options that you just haven’t explored yet? Yeah. Um, sometimes we just can’t see it ’cause we’re too close to it so that somebody to think partner with is really powerful.

MA:

Yeah. I agree. Or even someone to challenge you and offer a new perspective. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. For me, that’s been the game changer that gets me out of the lamenting. Mm-hmm. Or I will just stay there. <laugh>. Yeah. I’m, I’m great at doing that feels good. Right.

CS:

And also like misery loves company. Yeah. So when we’re in the lament of like, this sucks and oh my God, you know, my husband doesn’t do anything and blah, blah, blah. We will have tons of friends who wanna listen to us talk about that. Yeah. And they’ll just validate it and support it and Val but nothing will change until we kind of talk to someone

MA:

Who needs to be a thought partner. I agree.

CS:

Yeah. Different mm-hmm. Different conversation.

MA:

Yeah. This is so awesome. You’ve shared a lot of great stuff today. Um, Cherylanne, I’ve loved this so much, it’s helped me a lot. Resources. You have a great momentum resource. Tell us more about that. Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

CS:

Yeah. The momentum Playbook. I’m sure you’ll put the link in the show notes. That’s the easiest way usually for people to get to. So that’s a good guide to start some of this excavation work. I think, um, if you’re really feeling stuck, like it walks you through a pathway that can put you back into momentum, um, I’m sure you’ll give them the link. People can also come to the podcast. Okay. Um, so Brilliant Balance. My podcast is, yeah. It’s called Brilliant Balance. Okay. Uh, you just Google it, that’s the easiest way to find it. And all the podcast players were everywhere. Um, you know, seven years of backlog. So it’s pretty easy to search for a topic. If you go to my website, which is Brilliant Balance, if you go to, um, my website and go to the podcast page, there’s a searchable feature by topic, which is nice. ’cause you know how sometimes, like in Apple, you just can’t, you can’t find a topic of this podcast very easily. Right. Um, so I, that’s why that podcast page exists and sometimes people like to go back through the backlog of episodes and find some things that are, um, that solve specific problems you might have.

MA:

Perfect. Um, anywhere else that you’d like the listeners to find you or anything else you wanna share today?

CS:

I mean, I think social. I’m primarily on Instagram at @cskolnicki. Um, it’s hard to find, you know, this spelling is a problem, so whatever you wanna link is Great. We’ll,

MA:

We’ll make sure your name is in the title and everything. Right,

CS:

Right. I usually just go like, Google, she, you, that’s a unique enough name. Sometimes you can just find stuff from that. Um, no, I, I appreciate you having me, Molly. It’s been a really great conversation. I always love when I meet a Kindred and they are organic and it’s, um, you know, the conversation flows, that’s much more fun for me as somebody being interviewed. So I appreciate you having me on and, um, it was really fun to be here.

MA:

Awesome. It was great to have you take care.