Episode #435: YOU vs. You: Why Inner Conflict Makes Everything Harder with Dana Bernstein

Cherylanne Skolnicki:

I am Cherylanne Skolnicki, and this is Brilliant Balance, the show. For those of us who still dare to want it all, who have big dreams and bold ambitions, I think we deserve to have a big full life and the freedom to enjoy it. So let’s design our next chapter together for brilliance, not burnout. Each week I’ll bring ideas, insight, and a fresh perspective to keep you growing into a life that feels as good as it looks brilliant. Balance your life your way. Now let’s get started.This is episode 435 of the Brilliant Balance Podcast. You Versus You Why Inner Conflict Makes Everything Harder with Dana Bernstein. Dana is a conflict resolution author, speaker, and consultant, and she is the principle of Dare to Live Brave. So you can already see why I love her with more than 2,500 coaching hours and 150 clients under her belt.

She works in high stakes environments where clarity and communication and calm really matter places like universities, government, banking, the court system. And what I love about her work is that she doesn’t just focus on managing conflict that’s like out there, right external conflict. She really focuses on inner conflict as well. In fact, in 2025, she published a book called It’s The Thought That Counts, mastering the Art of You versus You, which helps people resolve internal conflict so they can navigate external challenges more effectively. And if that doesn’t sound like something that every woman I know needs, I don’t know what does. Dana holds a master’s in dispute resolution. She’s a court appointed mediator, a project management professional, a certified meeting professional, and a PCC credentialed coach who also serves on the ICF New Jersey board. She is published extensively on contracts and negotiations. She’s created widely viewed webinars on the human side of project management. And she runs a family-owned animal hospital because of course she does <laugh>. At the heart of all of this is Dana’s belief that learning to use your voice thoughtfully, powerfully, and bravely changes everything. And I’m really excited for this conversation. So, I hope you are too. Welcome Dana, to the show.

Dana Bernstein:

Hello. And thank you. And thank you for having me. This will be fun. It will

CS:

Be fun. It will be fun. So, let’s start with the title of your book. Because I’m so intrigued by it. This idea of you versus you. When you use that phrase, what kind of inner conflict are you really talking about?

DB:

Oh, it’s all of it. It’s your head saying, I want to go here, and your heart’s like, Nope, we’re going in this way. It’s my two values are fighting. I’m indecisive. What do I do with this? Right? It’s that inside piece of saying, well, I wanna do this, but I want to do this. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, getting clarity, labeling and framing is so important because as soon as you label the thing that’s going on, you’re like, ah, I got it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

CS:

I can resolve that tension. Yeah.

DB:

Because I know and I can mindfully choose which one I’m going to put in the driver’s seat. And there’s no wrong answer. Right. If two of your values are fighting, you’re not going to say, well, I’m going to drop that value. That doesn’t work. So how do you say, I’m going to intentionally use this value and then I will bring this in at the end. So, example, say you procrastinate because everything has to be perfect and you have an excellence value, and you have maybe an adventure value, perhaps put excellence in the back seat and tell her to calm down. And then you put your adventure value in the driver’s seat and say, you start, and I’ll bring excellence here and there and clean up whatever it is that you’re doing. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But it’s not a competition between the two.

CS:

No. And in fact, sometimes they have to reconcile this between themselves. Somehow, they have to find a way to reconcile. What are some of the most common kinds of inner conflicts that you see women in this demographic who we serve with this podcast. Right? What are some of the most common conflicts that you see them showing up? Like what does it look like on the outside when they’re struggling with that on the inside?

DB:

Defeated, deflated. I don’t have a voice. You do have a voice. Let’s go find her. Let’s bring her out and let’s put her in the driver’s seat. The one that you think is the most appropriate for that situation. And do the thing that needs to be done with your best self. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Never putting yourself in a position of not having power. So, a lot of this is, is a power struggle, is who has the most power, especially in external conflict. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. When you’re not on steady ground, you’ve already lost the power game internally and you show up differently. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, you want to regain your footing. You want to be grounded in your values. You want to be grounded in who is that best self to do the thing that needs to be done. Whether it’s a hard conversation, whether it’s something that you, whatever, it’s right as your best self. You don’t want to look back and say, oh, I should have. And this is a way to find who that best self is. What are the values that are, that are driving you? What is the measure of success that, that those values are just lockstep with you. And then what’s the best self?

CS:

Yeah. At the high low. So how do we find that? What’s the process that you teach for finding your way to that? If somebody’s not already clear?

DB:

Well, I now have an app for that <laugh>, so, so it’s exciting. So, what we do, what I do is a conflict resolution coach is we talk about what is your best moment in time? When were you the proudest? And from that, there’s always a theme of I did this and why, this is why I am proud. And then we start pulling out the why you’re proud. We road test it to say, is this also the reason why you get angry? Because the same values that make you proud are also the same ones when they’re crossed make you angry. So, if you have a value of excellence or perseverance, and that’s your main driver, you also will get upset if people don’t have that. And then that’s where the judgment comes in.

CS:

Interesting. Okay. Or maybe when you’re not exhibiting that, then you’re judging yourself. Interesting.

DB:

Bingo. Bingo. Okay. So having your key words, it’s like, you know, between 10 to 12, 15 words that make up that internal identity. When you know those, that’s your power. And you could pull on that power source and say, this is how I’m going to deploy her.

CS:

And deploying her in conflict, I think is the kind of lens on this that’s unique to you, or maybe unique to what I’ve shared with the listeners before. So, I think we’ve probably, there are people who, with a therapist or something, have gone through a value stack exercise of like, these are the values that I hold the most dear, or this is how I see myself. Even talk to me specifically about how that shows up in conflict. I would say what it feels like to me is it could be triggering, right? If somebody is like, not in alignment with our values, it feels like, oh, I’m experiencing conflict with this person. Or maybe in shorthand I’m getting triggered. And then we kind of behave on instinct at that point, right? And so, then the conflict could expand. What are the tools that allow us to resolve it with more grace?

DB:

First of all, do you understand which value was hit? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, something happens and you automatically have this reaction. It’s like a, two second thing. If someone says something, boom, the trigger happens. And you’re, you have that emotion,

CS:

Right?

DB:

You want to pause and allow that emotion to just be, then you want to ponder your thoughts and you look at those who words as those thoughts, those 10 to L 15 words, whatever they are to say, okay, why am I really bothered? Did it hit a respect value? Did it hit a justice value? Did it hit, what was I not acting

CS:

As myself? So, I want to make sure I get this. So, if I’m saying respect is critical, it’s one of my core values, and I feel disrespected in this interaction. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. That’s probably why I’m experiencing a lot of emotion. Okay. And then the awareness of that alone will help me resolve the conflict.

DB:

Well, it’s going to take it down a notch to say, okay, what value can I put in its place? Maybe I have empathy is another value. Maybe I have my empathetic self have empathy towards myself. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And empathy towards the situation to just pull my jets. Interesting. Because a calmer head is going to prevail. So, it’s pause and just breathe, ponder what you’re thinking, and then pivot to that best self to respond, not react. And when you can look at your words, that’s when you do it. But I’m going to give you a, an example of an elephant and a writer. Okay. Kind of put some context. So, you have an elephant and a rider. Rider, she’s a small person on top of a very large elephant. Rider is your brain; elephant is your emotions. So, your rider’s like, I want to go here. And your elephant, the emotions are like, yes, that’s fantastic. Let’s have that conversation. I’m excited about it. Let’s go to the gym, let’s do whatever it is I need to do. And those two are in the same, they’re going in the same direction. Okay. The minute the elephant feels disenfranchised after something happens, right? That’s going to go this way and then yours. But I’m over here, let’s do it this way. No, you know, you need to calm down, down, you know you need to.

CS:

Right. You’re kind of hanging on, on for dear life at that point. Yeah.

DB:

And the elephant’s like, I’m not having it. But then what you do as the rider is you’re feeding the elephant peanuts to say, can you believe they disrespected me? Can you believe this? Can you believe that? And the more you feed the elephant, those thought peanuts, that elephant’s going to get bigger and bigger. And when the elephant gets bigger, it takes up all your thinking room. And that’s how it works. And it’s become circular. Then they’re in this thought loop of saying, I want to get out of it, but they disrespected me. And then the elephant’s like, yes, this is horrible. You should,

CS:

It’s like sourcing power from that exchange. I see. Okay.

DB:

Absolutely. So, the idea is by labeling and framing, you deescalate the elephant. You take your emotions down a notch and say, respect it. Hit my respect button. Now where do I go from here? How, how do I solve conflict with a forward-facing lens? You can’t do that when you’re stuck in emotion. You can’t be stuck in emotion without labeling and framing and then saying, okay, let me, let me just keep thinking about this

CS:

And use another. So I’m, that’s fascinating. And I, I think it’ll resonate with a lot of people. The idea that your emotions are the elephant, right? They’re the giant in the room, kind of this lumbering, you know, vehicle, if you will, that is hard to control, feels very powerful. I mean, you can feel very small in response to them. Where do you see that in external conflict? Like, you do so much work with external conflict in these traditional environments. Right? I was naming them at the beginning of the episode. How does it show up there?

DB:

You get a reaction and then you start acting as your triggered self. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Whatever the situation is. And then you look back and you’re like, I could have handled that with a better head.

CS:

You’re like, I was an elephant. Right? Right.

DB:

I was an elephant today. You,

CS:

I was thinking of it like, you feel powerful maybe in the moment ’cause you’re so activated and it’s such a big feeling, but then later you feel like dumb, I feel dumb if my emotions took over. I feel like I certainly didn’t have a well-reasoned point of view. I often probably gave up more or walked away from it. Absolutely. With my like reputation diminished.

DB:

Absolutely. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Absolutely. All

CS:

Of that. So how do you train it? Like just the awareness is enough to insert that pause between like getting activated and responding.

DB:

Yeah. Well, you keep practicing the pause mm-hmm <affirmative>. So practice in low stakes moments. Because if you’re going in with something and it’s a, a higher stake, you’re not gonna wanna be able to practice a pause when you’re in that situation. So practice in low stakes situations, identify what your favorite pause is. Is it picturing your pet? Is it picturing the sunshine? Is it grounding yourself in a breathing technique? We all have different ones that we do. We have to use the thing that’s the most individualized to us that’s going to work. If someone says, Dan, go breathe. I’d be like, yeah, I’m not doing that <laugh>. Like, that’s just not happening. So I’m gonna have to not gonna mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know what I mean? You have to Yeah,

CS:

I do.

DB:

It’s your,

CS:

Especially if you’re already activated and somebody tells you to calm down heaven for forbid or breathe. Right. So what is the like demeanor or the toolkit of the person who’s able to stay really calm in a situation where they’re experiencing conflict,

DB:

They know how they operate. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It’s all about self knowledge.

CS:

It’s self-awareness. Yeah.

DB:

It’s all of that. You, my shoes won’t fit your feet. So I have a whole different set of values. And my best self, my rule book is so different than everybody else’s, as are is your rule book is different from others. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And how I do pausing is different. How, how much time it takes for me to deescalate in certain situations. So that self knowledge goes a very long way in gaining your power back. Yeah.

CS:

And you talked a little bit about one of the ways to get that self-knowledge is to understand your values. Another way to get the self-knowledge that I heard you say is to kind of develop this toolkit and practice some things that might help you embrace that pause and really increase the space right? Between the stimulus or the activation and how you respond to it. That it has been my experience that that po that ability to walk away. The ability to kind of take a second and to feel honestly empowered enough to do that. Dana. Like, I don’t think I had the, I don’t think I thought I had permission to do that earlier in my adulthood, in my career maybe. And I think about some of the worst moments of my professional life, I would’ve benefited so much from just the confidence to say, I’m gonna step out for a sec. You know, even to say like, I have to go to the bathroom would’ve worked like anything to just break the tension of the, the situation we were in. So how do you hack your way to it? What are some of the shortcuts that work for most people that would enable them to get that space

DB:

Knowing before they get into the situation that it could have a, have an issue? Ah, yeah. So it’s, it’s all about pre-thinking. So I know with certain people, the heart rate’s already elevated before I go in and I’m like, oh, Dana, calm it down. Yes. This is where you’re aiming. This is how you’re gonna frame it. And that’s it. Now there’s conflict in the moment and conflict that you could think about.

CS:

Okay.

DB:

So conflict in the moment is that like we’re talking and all of a sudden you land something on me and I’m like, ah, what do I do with this? Exactly. And that’s a little bit harder than something happened. And now I’m gonna give myself a day to think about it. I got an email, I got something went on that I, it’s not an immediate response, and now I’m, I’m triggered, I’m feeling my heart rate. Right.

CS:

That,

DB:

That’s very different than when you’re blindsided by something, which is also very different in, in pre-thinking that I’m going into a difficult boss mm-hmm <affirmative>. And now I have to make sure I’m, this is how I’m gonna stay in alignment. But that pre-thinking is important.

CS:

Did you know that beyond hosting this podcast, I also directly support women leaders at the intersection of work and life As a member of bold, you get direct access to me, the women on my team, and a peer group of exceptional women who are rewriting the rules and redefining what it means to have it all together. Go to brilliant balance.com/bold to learn more and apply for your spot today. And ultimately you’re steering people to, toward a methodology for resolving the conflict, right? Not just for like tolerating the tension of it with yourself or understanding what happened, but in con true conflict resolution, there has to be a next step of this process, which is, okay, I’ve held the self-awareness, maintain my composure, and now I wanna resolve the conflict. How, how do you transition to those kind of elements of the technique?

DB:

It’s, it starts on the inside because a calmer use sets the tone for everything else. The outside conflict, you know how to deal with it. You deal with conflict all the time. If you’re not sitting on a beach with a fun drink in hand, it’s probably a conflict. So where, wherever your favorite place is. So think about what’s driving you and what’s stopping you in each moment and pay attention to what you’re thinking. When you think about your thoughts, when you think about your own operating system, that self command is priceless. The external conflict gets dealt with because you deal with it. And some people conflict is made up. Some people would go look at the situation and be like, oh, why is this even an issue? I, I can manage this without a, a question, why for you, Donna, is this thing a problem? And I could say, well, here’s the reasons. Maybe I’m lacking whatever it is.

CS:

I’m having this like aha moment of my own here. Maybe it’s me. But the, I think I came into this piece of the conversation thinking that there’s an element of negotiation that’s a part of this, and maybe not, maybe it’s actually like juujitsu move here of how am I gonna sort of allow the conflict to dissipate rather than directly solving for it. So I’m thinking of an example I was in recently where I could tell someone was really activated, right? And then that was activating my own emotions and I kept thinking like, okay, I have to resolve this. I have to like, figure out what’s going on and get to the bottom of it. And the reality is, I could eradicate that conflict by just dropping my own emotional response to it. That’s kind of the, what I’m saying is the, that’s a not the move. I think people are expecting from someone who says, I’m a conflict resolution expert. It’s a really different way of thinking about resolving the conflict is resolving it through your own awareness of what was driving it in the first place. What was making you experience it as conflict? That’s fascinating. I’m watching your body language. I wish the listeners could, because you’re like, yes, Sterling, and that’s what I mean. Okay.

DB:

There’s no such thing as conflict. You could have easily say you put a coaching hat on in that moment and this person was triggered, whatever they’re doing, you could have been like, let me just be that empty vessel. Yeah. What’s happening? Maybe that person just needed to, and you were that safe spot mm-hmm <affirmative>. But for you, they got elevated. You got elevated, and then it, the elephants keep getting larger. Right? Had it be been someone else who didn’t get triggered by that moment, they would’ve said, let me just listen to this person while they’re, they’re having an emotion.

CS:

Right. Which is why I can read an email that my husband gets from someone that he’s all upset about. And I’m like, I don’t see anything in this. Like, there’s nothing in this. Because it really is all in the eye of the beholder. It’s, I mean, could we say that that conflict is in the eye of the beholder that like it

DB:

Absolutely.

CS:

It takes two right. To have a conflict, y’all, I hope if you’re listening, you’re having the same aha moment. I was, because that is a really fascinating kind of reveal to me in this conversation, is we don’t need to have tools for negotiating our way to positive outcomes for conflict. Sometimes what we just need is a way to reframe what is happening here and how can I lay it down? How can I drop the conflict so it doesn’t control me? Fascinating. Exactly.

DB:

And then resolve it. I mean, there is, there are negotiation techniques of separating the person versus the problem. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. You separate all sorts of things. You decouple it, you have mutual awareness on how to go forward. So there’s all external stuff, blah, blah, blah. You’ve done it all your life. But if you don’t know why you think this thing is a conflict in the first place, you’re not gonna be able to resolve it as that best self.

CS:

Fascinating. So what does life feel like on the other side, right? When someone stops fighting themself or, and really starts working with themself to understand like, what is driving me here? When does this elephant in control? And how do I lay that down and, and stay the rider? What does life look like on the other side of

DB:

It? Freedom.

CS:

Yes. Such

DB:

A great word. It’s freedom. It’s freedom of choice. You really do have a choice in what you think. No one tells you this is how you should think or this, you get to choose your thoughts. And if you don’t like what you’re choosing, then change ’em. It’s just like, choose differently. So what is your favorite food? Let me just throw it out there.

CS:

My favorite food. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Uh, let’s go with, uh, let’s go with ice cream.

DB:

Okay. What food do you hate? Like you wanna throw up? If you think about it.

CS:

Bananas.

DB:

I just had one for lunch. That’s why conflict is made up. So I like bananas. And you don’t <laugh>. Right?

CS:

Right.

DB:

So every time you’re in the middle of a swirl, just think about eating a lot of bananas on purpose. It’s the food you fill your stomach with is no different than the thoughts you fill your head with. And when you think ice cream, it’s your best self. It’s, you can have that all the time. Even if it’s a 1% or a scoop of ice cream, you could still have that as your thought. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Path. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. For lack of a better term, versus thinking about bananas. Mm-hmm. Because bananas are not gonna get you the end result that you’re looking for. It’s not gonna make you live clean between your ears where you’re good to yourself. It’s not gonna help external conflict. It’s strictly the elephant’s just gonna get bigger.

CS:

Yeah. It’s like roiling in the negative. Right. Is what it feels like to me that your bananas analogy of like continuing to put yourself in the negative and just like bathe in it versus again, laying it down and having the skills to say like, oh, I can see what happened here, but I’m not gonna get duped by that. I’m gonna sort of rise above that to not be controlled by it. It’s powerful stuff. You make it sound easy. I, i, I believe it probably is a little more challenging in practice for us to put this to work, but for the listener, I think if we want a couple of first steps, do you start with understanding what your values are or is there a different way in?

DB:

Yeah. You, you understand who the, who is. So I gave you the app so people can Yes. You know, do the exercise and say, wow, I didn’t realize that there’s a word for this.

CS:

So we’re gonna drop the link to your assessment into the show notes. So if you’re listening and you’re in the car or something, when you get to a place that you can access the show notes, there’ll be a link directly to this assessment called the who assessment that gets you to this collection of values. Helps you sort

DB:

And your pillars and your pillars, your best self. There’s two different things, right? So you have, your values are your hard lines in the sand. They are why you think conflict actually happens. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. You have your pillars, which are your best self. So are you connected, empathetic, full of joy, happiness, whatever it is, right? You have all these other words. I’m all about laughter and peace community. So those are my, my pillars. And I could put my community pillar on whenever I feel like it. If I’m having a bad day, I’m gonna put my community pillar jacket on and maybe like, okay, I’m gonna build community with others. I’m going to face it inwards and build it with myself. I’m gonna make people laugh. Put that jacket on. Yes. If I have a negotiation, I always use my pillar of laughter to break impasse. Yes.

Yes. But that’s my natural go-to. That’s amazing. Everyone has that. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, but that’s how you do it in a negotiation kind of a scenario is you, how do you wanna frame the conversation? How do you wanna frame the negotiation? And that’s as your best self. So the, the idea is to frame your values the best self, what you wanna feel every day, so you can aim there and get there. And then what stops you that trigger? I’m not smart enough, I’m not good enough. I’m not wanted, uh, respected, seen, heard. There’s a whole bunch of them. Yeah. And you could do it on the app and when your trigger is driving the bus, you could be like, oh, they’re are bananas, <laugh>. I’m, I’m feeling that’s, that’s like, this is not doing well. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Let me put her in the backseat, little duct tape on her mouth mm-hmm <affirmative>. And let me pull out one of my best selves and figure out who’s gonna frame the conversation in the, in the spirit of that self,

CS:

The consciousness required to do that is pretty intense. I mean, I I suspect that there’s a level of practice here of techniques for really training yourself to remember to go to those things. Like to catch yourself as you’re kind of descending and quickly be like, hold on, let me, I see what’s happening. Are there any real shortcuts there that just kind of snap people back to a level of awareness where we can insert that pause and catch ourselves sooner?

DB:

Yes. But it also requires some reflection. So you wanna think about where you feel it in your body. Okay. So I know that my shoulders go like this. I, you know, my teeth clench and then my body catches on fire. It’s not menopause, but I can feel my body just heat rising. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So if I don’t capture it at the shoulders or the the teeth clenching piece, the, the next thing I will feel is the body is catching on fire. Let me pause because I’m, I’m not <laugh>

CS:

By the time you’re on fire, you know, like I, I’m gonna need. Okay. That’s great. That’s great.

DB:

That’s the one’s

CS:

Great. But so body awareness allows you to say like, oh, I’m tuning in to the, and you know, I think about the same way for people with anxiety that they learn like, where do I feel this in my body? Oh, I know what’s happening. I, I now I understand I’m having an anxiety response. How can I dial it back? This would be similar. Yep. Okay.

DB:

Exactly. Amazing. Your body will feel it before your, your brain thinks about your thoughts. Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

CS:

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it’s interesting that the inner conflict that you versus you is a part of the part of you that is easily activated, easily sort of baited into conflict versus your best self. The part of you that knows how to maneuver around that. Stay grounded, stay calm, create kind of pause and presence so that you can stay engaged and ultimately get to the other side of whatever had created the conflict in the first place. Fantastic. All right. So people are gonna go find your book, which we are linking to in the show notes. They’ll find their way to the, everyone’s gonna wanna know, what are my, what are my values and how are they stacked up? Any parting thoughts for our listeners today?

DB:

Be kind to yourself. Mm. Identify who you are and live clean between your ears. You, you have a fantastic way of doing things. Honor that, honor your body. Honor your thought process. Honor who you are, because making yourself wrong for things that you can’t change is this fruitless, uh, loop. Right? You’re in a, in a constant loop of thinking one way or the other. You can’t unscramble eggs. So where do you go from here? How do you bounce forward and manage the whatever it is that happened with that best self in mind and be kind to yourself?

CS:

So great. So great Dana, thank you for being with us today on the show. Really, I’m, I, I learned a lot. I think that’s always a great test of an interview when I come out of it like, oh, there was the aha moment I was looking for, and it’s been a delight to meet you and get to know you and your work. So we will make sure everyone can find you. If you are new to the Brilliant Balance Show, this is the first episode you’re listening to. Take a second to subscribe or follow the show. Wherever you’re listening, share it with a friend if you found today’s episode to be particularly compelling and come back next week. That’s all for today, my friends. Till next time, let’s be brilliant.